How to Travel More Sustainably (Without Spending More Money or Being Perfect)

[0:00] What if sustainable travel has less to do with reusable water bottles and more to do with how you move through a place? Most travelers think sustainability means spending more money or just focusing on ecotourism, water bottle usage, and carbon footprints. But what if some of the most sustainable travel habits are actually the simplest ones? [0:20] My name is Kiara and I'm the host of Put the Guidebook Down. Today, I am joined by Lotte, advocating for sustainability and a love for travel can go together. And that's what she tries to show with her blog, The Sustainable Travel Guide. She shares easy tips and tricks to help travelers make a positive impact on [0:38] the places they visit. Thank you so much for joining me. How are you?

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm good, thanks. How are you?

I'm good. I'm over on the East Coast. And where are you calling in from today?

I'm in the UK.

[0:52] So this is gonna be exciting, and I know I've been following your content for a while, because I will admit I am not the most sustainable travel fluent traveler and I'm always looking for ways to broaden my horizons and knowledge when it comes to different forms of travel and how to leave a more positive impact on [1:11] the environment as we move through this space. So I'm very excited to jump into our episode today.

[1:15] Yeah, let's go.

All right, so for those listening, our theme today is going [1:19] to be around how everyday travelers can travel more sustainably without being perfect, and I like to add without spending lots and lots of money, because we all see that checkbox for the limit my carbon footprint on those flights and it's like an extra hundred and you're like, whoa, I don't know, I mean I want to, [1:35] but I'm a budget traveler. So we're gonna kind of debunk all of that today. So I want to start off by just at a high level going in on what does sustainable travel mean to you personally?

[1:46] Yeah, it's a good question. Obviously the best thing is if you can actually have a positive impact on the place you're visiting, like you just said, but that is quite difficult. So I think for me I would rather define it as not having a negative impact.

So then what would be [2:05] a negative impact, or what are those frustrations that you feel when you think about people who are like, oh, I don't know about sustainable travel, I don't know where to start. Like, what comes to mind?

[2:16] I think things that are very sort of extractive from the place you're visiting. So rather than spending money that goes into the local community, you cause a lot of nuisance or like crowdedness, litter, all of those things, and the place you're visiting is not getting anything positive in return for it. [2:36] So obviously if you get a lot of travelers then hopefully that means there's some money going into the economy, but if you're only supporting like big international chains then not a lot of the money you're spending is actually going into your destination. And similarly if the way you travel just causes a lot of environmental harm [2:58] or animal harm, there's a lot of unethical animal experiences out there. So those kind of things would all be [3:06] quite negative, unfortunately.

Yeah, it sounds like there's a lot of different sides to sustainable travel that you just called out, because I feel like my initial thought is to go on the environmental factor, but then you also just mentioned the economical impact and then also taking [3:22] into account maybe food sources or such as like the impacted animals. So maybe, let's start with the economy then. How can travelers support local economies more realistically, and how do they start maybe looking for those signs or cues when they're going [3:40] about planning their trip?

Yeah, so it's really trying to book local accommodation, so like locally owned. So very easy, if you recognize the name of a hotel chain, probably not the best idea, right? And also with more like the experiences you're doing, so if you're booking like [4:00] a tour guide, try to have someone who's from that place. That's probably going to give you a better experience as well, rather than having a random person who's also flown in to give the tour. So it's those kind of things, trying to find people, experiences, restaurants, accommodation that is owned by the locals, so whatever money you're spending [4:23] during your travels will actually go to the people that live there, I think.

[4:28] Just as you said, local, local, local. I was actually on Instagram I think earlier today, and I had done an episode with this other influencer called Sivan, and she has this whole sustainable travel focus. I see you probably have heard of her. She just did a collaboration post with another influencer and it was kind [4:49] of around this whole topic of what you were just covering, in terms of what are alternatives to those large names or how to navigate what that approach could look like to be not as harmful to the environment, as you mentioned. And I was looking through it and I was like, you know, I'm guilty of some of this. [5:09] At least I know that there is some other option in the way they present it. It just seems so easy to digest. It's kind of like, why wouldn't I be doing this?

[5:19] Yeah, and obviously like in some places it will be harder than others, and also if like a lot of information is in a different language, obviously that's also going to make it harder. But it's about trying, and it's about trying to get it right as often as possible.

[5:34] Right. So then if we're talking about what maybe habits people can do to make the difference when there's these bigger hurdles, such as the language barrier or maybe a place is just not commonly visited, what are the habits that make the biggest difference that they should tackle first?

[5:51] I think again this sort of trying to find something local, and then also using your network, because you might know people who've been to the place and they can maybe advise you on which experiences or places to stay they would recommend that are locally owned or locally organized. [6:08] But again, yeah, I do recommend looking into Sivan's tips, because she is definitely the expert on this!

[6:15] She's great. So talking about travel though, do you have any fun stories or personal experiences of maybe where you were not traveling in the most sustainable style and then had this whole revelation and changing it, or you have like I don't want to

[6:32] Yeah, so I think it was beginning of 2020, before COVID. I was living in [6:44] the Netherlands and I had a friend who was studying in London, and I only had like a weekend to visit her. I was doing an internship, I couldn't take days off, and so I flew the Netherlands to London. And there's a great, like there's multiple great alternatives that are less carbon intensive. So there's [7:03] the Eurostar train, you can take ferries, you can take a bus, like there's lots of options, but the fastest I thought was gonna be to fly over. Now while I was booking this I was already kind of not happy with myself for doing this, and it was a bit like, I actually don't really want to take these [7:23] And then I think the sort of revelation was when there was a storm on the way back and the flight got cancelled and I had to take the overnight bus, and I was glad, and I was actually glad I didn't have to go on this flight I didn't want to support. [7:39] So I think that's the moment to sort of realize, like, I actually don't agree with what I'm doing, so I've got to change my behavior.

I feel like you were kind of [7:48] nudged, you know, like the world was like, look, I already know you're not a fan of the whole flight, let me help you out and take the other alternative. So that's, I guess it was a negative actually turning up into a positive.

[8:02] I think so, yeah, because I definitely didn't fly anywhere for five or six years after that.

Oh wow, [8:11] that is impressive, that's really wow travelables right there talking about small changes to make a difference that. inspiring. I wish we had more easy ways to travel here in the States. I feel we all kind of end up taking the flights just because of how big [8:30] the States are, that when I end up traveling in Europe it's always a nice surprise I can just take a train and be in like the next country [8:37] in like three hours.

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's it, it's doing what's possible in also the region where you're living. So like I say, the Eurostar, like it is, it because like with airplanes you need to get like transport into the city center [8:53] and you need to be at the airport like two or three hours in advance, and like all of this is taken away with trains, because you just get out of the train station and you're in the middle of the city. You don't have [9:03] to be there quite as long in advance, so it ends up being like a similar time, and if you're booking in advance it's also not necessarily more expensive. So yeah, it's quite easy sort of in Europe, and I would recommend people to try and replace the things [9:18] that they can easily replace.

Yeah! That's a good tip. [9:24] I use Rome2Rio a lot, if people don't know where to start, because you can just put in your to destination, from destination point, and it shows you all the possible options you can take for every method of travel. Like I'm travel planning right now for Greece [9:38] and I was trying to look at other alternatives to flying from one island to the next, and it was like, ferry, yeah, from like island to the other one and stuff like that. I'm like, this is so much more helpful, thank you. Well, now I want to go [9:52] a little bit more towards travel behaviors, which is kind of related to the impact on maybe animals, food consumption, or maybe how we just move through spaces in general. Because we all use social media these days, we use a lot of it for travel planning inspiration, it's just hard to avoid because you want [10:12] to know what you're signing up for before you go. So I need to ask you, how do social media trends contribute to overtourism or maybe to how we travel sustainably?

[10:26] Yeah, that's a really interesting question. So I think the influence of social media is that it makes people want to go to places that they actually don't really want to go to. So a lot of people, they go for certain photo spots or they go just [10:45] because it's popular or they've heard that it's nice, but it doesn't actually align with their own interests. So say for example if you're really into the outdoors and you're really into hiking or those kind of things, then why would you go do sort of city hopping thing just [11:02] because these are the famous cities you should have seen in your life according to other people? And you know, if a certain culture really appeals to you then maybe that's where you should go. And I would sort of ask people to evaluate and think about what does actually interest me when I travel, and what type [11:22] of culture, what type of food, what type of activities would I like to do, and which destination fits that, rather than which cool place have I seen on Instagram.

I think that's a great [11:35] question to start, is really the reason, like why are you traveling in the first place and what accomplish in your travels. And I find that many people are just chasing that social media influencer content, or even one of my more recent episodes, it was talking about [11:54] that whole escapism of wanting to leave the nine to five to find that travel influencer lifestyle, where you're just going through the same path that someone else already created rather than having your own travel experience [12:10] for yourself.

Yeah, and also there's nothing wrong with having a nine to five and traveling when you can. Like, you know, not everyone needs to quit their job.

Very good. [12:19] Period. You've heard it guys, like you don't need to all quit. I mean we want to, yeah, yeah, but like you can travel while work, like it is doable. And I know there are influencers out there that are like the after five traveler, [12:35] where they talk about how you can be a wanderluster nomad and still work the nine to five. It's like, we need to normalize that behavior a little bit.

Yeah, [12:45] yeah, and so much of what you see on social media is often like glamorized, and actually when you then go to these places or follow the same lifestyle you get to see all the negative sides that you wouldn't see on Instagram, [13:01] for example.

Oh yeah, yes, I've talked about this. There's also the when you return from living abroad kind of moment, reverse culture shock. There's so many aspects to that that is not really showcased in that whole social media lifestyle. Can be a little misleading in our travel marketing there.

Definitely.

[13:25] Well, we're going to start moving a little bit more now into maybe how people can adopt these behaviors to become more of a sustainable traveler, or what are easy ways they can shift their regular travel habits to be more eco-friendly, great for the environment and economy. So because we know that sometimes the most unsustainable thing isn't [13:47] the plane ticket necessarily, it's the mindset that we take. So I want to turn it back to you, as you are one that creates these tips and tricks that people can adopt easily from just their normal travel. So what advice would you have for any traveler? So not someone who's maybe luxury, [14:07] not someone who's only for budget, like any traveler, to approach into a more sustainable travel environment. And what does this look like in practice?

[14:16] Yeah, so I think a big pitfall with sustainability in general, but also with travel, is a sort of perfectionism. Like, oh, I can't do it perfect, so I might as well not bother at all. And I think that's such a wrong mindset. Like, every little bit that you do, [14:31] and every improvement you try to make is worth it. So like you say, even if you go to a destination and there's no alternative to flying there, then you can still do a lot of positive things while you're at the destination, and the other way around as well. [14:46] So it's trying to find definitely at first the small and easy things that you can change, which might be indeed trying to find more like homestays or locally owned B&Bs rather than Airbnb or a chain hotel. And that can be just [15:02] the one thing you focus on and try to make this a sort of habit, and then take a next step, and not try and do it all perfectly at once, because nobody is perfect and like travel is always gonna have like an impact on the world, [15:18] and yeah, you can't completely avoid that.

Yeah, for sure. I think also this whole [15:25] over optimization or consuming of local cultures, like I feel that because of the focus on content creation or wanting to check all these things off our list when we move through spaces, we start to lose the intention why we're traveling in the first place, and maybe not being cognizant or aware of [15:45] the impact that we're leaving as we move through the space and leave them. Because while we want to talk about the positives and these steps of adopting more sustainable travel habits, but travel sustainability isn't just about reducing harm, right? It's also about increasing connection as travelers. [16:04] And I know one that I am starting to investigate and talk more about is slow travel. Have you had any experience with that, or were you traveling kind of a checklist traveler style and changed, and what caused that change [16:18] for you?

I don't think I had a sort of travel checklist mindset, but I just really started enjoying like cycling trips. Because so instead of like flying, and going by train you already see a lot more of a country, but then the slower your mode of transportation, like the more you actually see, like [16:40] beyond the tourist hotspots as well. So I've cycled through Sweden and I really feel like I've seen the actual country and not just like these two cities that most tourists go to. So sort of the slower you travel the more you actually see. [16:55] And yeah, this was kind of an eye-opener I guess. I mean it makes a lot of sense if you say it like this, but then the actual experience was just so good.

[17:06] Yeah, I like that. I kind of got to add that's my own list now, is a cycling trip. I feel like I've been seeing more people start doing those and it looks so intimidating to start. But I feel like [17:19] the journey is worth it once you go through it the first time and learn the methods and ways.

Yeah, and I mean it doesn't have to be cycling specifically. Like you can do kayaking tours for example, or you can hike, like there's different options, but sort of the slower the more you see.

[17:37] Yeah. I like that. So maybe one of the other recommendations is to try something different or beyond what you think travel is or has to be, so these other methods that you mentioned or other activities can be a nice alternative for people to explore.

[17:52] Yeah, that's a good summary.

And there's just so much to cover, it's hard to go all [17:56] through all the content in one discussion. We could talk about this as a series, but I feel that talking from you I've been able to learn a lot more about sustainable travel in ways that I personally can adopt it, so I'm hoping our listeners are feeling that confidence and inspiration as well. [18:14] I'd like to turn the microphone back over to you one last time and see if there's any other advice, tips, tricks, fun stories that you would like to share [18:23] before we close out our episode.

Yeah, I think coming back to something you mentioned in the introduction a little bit, that sustainability doesn't have to be more expensive, because I think that's one of the big misconceptions, and especially when people focus just on like comparing trains to planes. But for example [18:40] staying in a hostel is often more sustainable than staying in a hotel, just because the sort of space efficiency, like more people in a smaller space is more sustainable, and also like in hostels you don't have these one time use soap things and, you know, like the little packets of shampoo [19:01] that you get, which are quite wasteful. Like all of these things you don't really have in hostels, and hostels also often foster more connection between people. So that's like one way that is kind of already more sustainable, but it's also cheaper and it's not like a revolutionary thing. And I think the same with travel by buses. [19:21] It's often cheaper than trains. Maybe it's a little bit slower, but especially in Southeast Asia you have a lot of sleeper buses, and they're returning to Europe as well. So that's a cheap, kind of common way to travel that is just more sustainable by default. So you don't have to do very crazy things. [19:40] You don't have to stay at a luxury eco hotel, you don't have to take a fancy train or anything. It's just the sort of simple back-to-basic type things that happen to be more sustainable as well.

Yeah, I really like [19:53] that point and call out, so thank you for that, because I do think there is that whole misconception being only for luxury travel or for people who have a higher travel budget. But as you mentioned, it's even just changing an accommodation can be a positive impact and a more sustainable way to travel. [20:10] And I know I love hostels, not just because of the connection base and they're usually for more affordable travel, let's be real. But I think that their approach to being more environmental friendly and thinking about the locals and wanting to be more involved with the community is just really shaping [20:27] travel in a more positive light and a little bit more back to its roots, which I think is very impactful. Well, this is going to be the end of our discussion, but for our listeners, we can't end the episode without giving more homework for you [20:42] to reflect on. So at the end of this, I hope you were able to learn a little bit more about sustainable travel, and some questions for you to think about: who benefits from your presence in a destination? Would the places you visit still feel meaningful without the content or social media support? [21:00] Are you leaving a place better, worse, or unchanged? And lastly, what would happen if we treated destinations less like products and more like relationships? Sustainable travel isn't about being the perfect traveler. It's about staying aware that your presence has an impact environmentally, culturally, economically, and socially. [21:21] So I want to thank Lotte for coming on to our show. We're going to leave her information for her Instagram at the sustainable travel guide, her website, blog. To all of our listeners, thank you so much for listening and I hope you tune into our next episode. Bye.

Thanks. Bye bye.